US Ambassador to Greece Geoffrey Pyatt in conversation with
English Kathimerini Editor in Chief Tom Ellis at the 2019 Delphi
Economic Forum.
Delphi Economic Forum
March 1, 2019
Ambassador Pyatt: First of all, thank you Tom for doing this. We
have a little bit of a road show now. I feel like we’re one of those
Las Vegas acts. But it really is an enormous pleasure for me to be back
here at Delphi. I want to start with huge congratulations to Symeon
and to the organizers for what I think has become a very important
institution on the Greek political calendar.
As I was getting ready for today – and this is my third one of these –
and over three Delphi Forums there have been millions of words and
thousands of Tweets and many, many cups of coffee, but I was trying to
reflect how this feels different compared to 2017 or 2018.
I just wanted to set the table with a couple of reflections on that.
And as I tried to crystallize my thoughts,
I think the most important
point is that Greece is back. Greece is back
as a foreign policy actor
in the region. The most visible manifestation of that, of course, is
the Prespes Agreement and the opportunities that that has opened up for
further
progress in setting all of the countries of the Western Balkans
on their path towards the Euro-Atlantic community, but also in terms of
unlocking the untapped economic potential, especially of connectivity
between Thessaloniki and the larger Balkan neighborhood, to
restore
Thessaloniki’s historic role as this cosmopolitan crossroads, the
gateway for commerce, for energy, for connectivity and technology
between the Balkans and the rest of the world — extremely important.
But that’s far from the only manifestation of this.
Greece is back
in terms of the East Med. You see that in the thriving Greece-Israel
relationship, the very successful
Greece-Israel-Cyprus Trilateral, and
I’ll have a little bit more to say about that later.
You see it in terms of
Greece’s role as an energy hub — probably one
of the issues that has seen the most dramatic evolution during my three
years here with the
completion of the TAP Pipeline, the
commencement of
work on the IGB Pipeline, the completion of the expansion of
Revithoussa’s terminal and the ability that that has created to take
deliveries of American and other LNG.
Most importantly, all of these projects will also help not only to
deepen energy security in Greece, but also to
unlock the Balkan energy
island for all of the countries to the north of Greece that are 100
percent dependent today on Gazprom and Russia’s use of energy as a
political weapon. Greece is the key to unlocking that situation.
And then
Greece’s increasingly important role in regional security.
Our counter-terrorism cooperation is as close as it’s ever been. Greece
cooperates closely with the United States in terms of our NATO
platforms, the work we do together at Souda Bay, the way in which
Greece
and America work together on maritime domain awareness and security in
the Eastern Med and the Aegean — at a moment when great power
competition has returned to the Eastern Med in a way that we have not
seen for more than two decades.
So all of this plays into the vision that I talked about here at
Delphi I think the first time that I was doing one of these
conversations, and that’s the
role of Greece as a pillar of regional
stability. But I think that vision today is more valid than ever
before. We have work to do on the economic side, and Tom and I will
talk about that.
T
he flip side of Greece being back is that America is back. You saw
that at the Thessaloniki international Fair which I think will be
remembered as a real watershed moment in the U.S.-Greece relationship,
and especially our relationship with Northern Greece.
You saw that in the launch of the Strategic Dialogue by Secretary of
State Pompeo and Foreign Minister Katrougalos in December and the active
efforts that both governments are making to sustain that momentum,
continue working in those lanes.
And then you see it in the promulgation of
a new American policy for
the Eastern Mediterranean which is one of the projects that Wess
Mitchell, our former Assistant Secretary of State, really prioritized,
and — among other things — has set the stage for
American participation
in the 3+1 as we call it: the trilateral Greece, Israel, Cyprus, now
with an American chair.
Then finally you see it in the
very robust American presence at the
Delphi Forum this year, and I’m extremely proud that we have so many
colleagues from Washington. I’m not sure there’s anybody left on Dupont
Circle today. It’s fantastic to have such a strong presence of the
American policy community and the transatlantic policy community here at
Delphi.
So Tom, that’s the big think, and now you can go to the small one.
Tom Ellis: Usually we hear of these big ideas and presentations with
[inaudible]. Let’s get down to the real things. You talk about
investment, the need for investment, U.S. investment. American
companies are companies that cannot follow the government’s rulings,
unlike the encouragement of, or the decision actually as of the Chinese
government, the Russian government, other governments, they will make
their own decisions. But can you point or explain or show us some
specific cases of American firms that are interested, are involved, are
invested, will invest? In real tangible terms what US interests
involving as far as the economy of Greece is concerned.
Ambassador Pyatt: Let me answer that two ways. First of all
concretely, we can point to a number of specific successes, but what I
would emphasize is how much the atmospherics have changed. When I was
getting ready for this job three years ago, and as Ambassadors Designate
do,
I asked the US Chamber of Commerce to arrange a roundtable for me
with American companies interested in Greece. Nobody came. Zero
companies. Nobody wanted to look at Greece because they were worried
about Grexit. They were worried about the risk that the banking system
was going to implode.
They were worried about uncertainty as to whether
or not the SYRIZA government would comply with its conditionality
obligations.
Today — we had, at the Thessaloniki Fair, thanks in large part to
our partners at the American Chamber of Commerce, and I’m glad Simos is
here, more than 50 top American companies, all of whom spent a
considerable sum of money to be present in Greece because they saw the
opportunities here, they saw the
opportunities that TIF represented to
talk to not just a market of 10 million in Greece, but a larger market
of 30 million. I think that’s a theme that we will continue to
emphasize.
We have specific successes we can point to like the ONEX investment
in the Syros shipyard; like Hyatt and Marriott expanding their presence
here; Avis, Lime Scooters in a small way.
The other point I will make, especially since we’re in Central
Greece, I should add this. I had the opportunity last week — exactly a
week ago I was in Lamia and Karpenisi along with Governor Bakoyannis.
I was incredibly inspired, encouraged by the team effort that Governor
Bakoyannis put together, and it really crossed political lines. There
were PASOK individuals, there were people from New Democracy, but it was a
team of 30- and 40-somethings who were focused on how to get things
done. Governor Bakoyannis also took me, while we were in Lamia, to see a
couple of companies that were successful, both in the agro-food sector.
One of these companies was actually founded just a few years ago. It
was founded at the peak of the crisis, but it’s now growing and
investing and expanding. Actually it’s a natural partner for the work
that the embassy has been doing to encourage Greek entrepreneurship, to
support the startup sector.
I always say the biggest secret story of
the Greek economic crisis is how underneath that crisis the Greek
startup sector has surged forward. I know Bloomberg and others have now
reported on the thousands of companies, Greek startups, that have
registered. That reflects both the enormous potential, the
human
capital that this country possesses, but also the fact that in the
aftermath of the crisis the old business structures are being replaced
and they’re being replaced from the grassroots including in a lot of
cases not in Athens but from Thessaloniki or Lamia or in other cities,
in Patra where you’ve got a thriving startup community.
These are stories that I think we all need to do a better job of
getting out because that’s what will attract American investment
interests.
Tom Ellis: One big issue that you’ve dealt with is energy. You
talked about Greece becoming a hub, although sometimes we think we are
the center of the world and we are “the” hub. But anyway. We do have
LNG from the US. Can you be a little more detailed in your analysis as
far as IGB, TAP and also given the latest with Exxon-Mobil in the Cyprus
EEZ and the possibility of LNG again, or building the East Med
Pipeline. What’s the prospect there? And how does the US view that?
We have an idea from the European Union, but how does the US view it.
Ambassador Pyatt: A couple of things. First of all, I should
emphasize the longstanding A
merican support for strengthening diversity
of sources and routes for energy in Europe. If you look at the European
energy market today, maybe
aside from Poland, Greece is probably the
most dynamic national marketplace where you are seeing real progress in
terms of achieving energy independence. We have Ambassador Morningstar
here this weekend.
Dick Morningstar has been working on the Southern
Gas Corridor for more than 20 years.
This year the TAP Pipeline, the last leg of the Southern Corridor,
will be completed. It’s completed because of work which began under the
New Democracy government and was sustained under a SYRIZA government.
In fact the SYRIZA government, which today has been playing an active
role in convincing the Italian government, also on the left, to do their
part of the work to make sure that TAP is finished on time. So TAP is
extremely important.
I would also note the upstream possibilities in Greece. The fact
that you have Exxon-Mobil not only conducting exploration off of Cyprus,
but Exxon-Mobil has a partnership with Total and HelPe for exploration
south of Crete. We’re very hopeful that Minister Stathakis will
complete the last bit of paperwork associated with that, and I would
encourage everybody to ask him that question when he’s here later this
weekend. But that is moving ahead as well.
On East Med I’ll say three things. First of all, at a strategic
level it’s an extremely important project that the United States
strongly supports. It complements everything that we’ve been doing with
the 3+1, our support for the flourishing Greece-Israel relationship.
The market is going to decide whether the pipeline is constructed.
Obviously the discoveries that Exxon-Mobil announced yesterday will have a
positive impact on those market calculations, but certainly at the
political level, as Ambassador Friedman, my counterpart in Jerusalem
made clear when he participated in the last Greece-Israel-Cyprus
Trilateral,
the United States is all in.
Tom Ellis: Because until recently, remember a few years back the
U.S. was in an, I’ll say off the record, sometimes on, supporting more
the possibility that the pipeline would go from Turkey.
Ambassador Pyatt: Our support —
Tom Ellis: — companies do their decision, but still you could feel
from the State Department and elsewhere that that’s the shortest,
cheapest, you know what I’m saying. But it’s not the case anymore maybe
because developments in Turkey itself have changed the equation.
Ambassador Pyatt: And the 3+1. The deepening of the Greece-Israel
relationship is a very important factor here. The fact that you had a
member of the Israeli Cabinet speaking to us last night at Delphi is an
important signifier.
I would also — the other project which we haven’t talked about, and I
should, is
the FSRU in Alexandroupolis. Again, particularly important
to unlocking that Balkan energy island and expanding opportunities for
exports into Greece of LNG. We’re very hopeful that the FSRU also will
move ahead. GasTrade, the consortium lead, had a successful market test
a few weeks ago, and we will continue to work hard to support that as
well — which is interesting because it fits, it nests within several
other projects in Alexandroupolis. The port privatization in which we
have American company interest, the
privatization of the Egnatia where
we don’t have American interest, but others are. And perhaps most
importantly, the
strategic importance of Eastern Macedonia and Thrace in
the context of the larger U.S. strategy for the Balkans and the larger
Black Sea region.
Tom Ellis: You mentioned the 3+1, Greece, Cyprus, Israel, and the
U.S. seems to be getting more involved. There is some preparation for
another summit. We, as Greeks, are used to these summits. The Prime
Ministers of three countries. The next one will be in Crete. March,
April. Is there a possibility that Secretary Pompeo might participate?
Are we at a point where there was some thought about that? I’m not
sure if —
Ambassador Pyatt: This was a part of the conversation between
Secretary Pompeo and Minister Katrougalos in December, and my boss,
the
Secretary of State, made clear that he intends to participate in the
3+1. It’s a logistics question now in terms of figuring out where and
when we make it happen. But I’m very confident — the policy is clear,
and it’s just a matter of working the mechanics.
Tom Ellis: Okay, that’s kind of newsy. It’s nice to know that [inaudible] through the discussions we did something newsy.
You always talk about the strategic relationship, alliance
partnership. Can we be a little bit more specific? To be honest, I
hear a lot of friends, not politicians, you know ordinary people who
like on a certain level the fact that Greece has a good relationship
with the U.S. It’s a little bit surprising in a positive way, but as
such [imaudible] with the [inaudible] government. But I think that’s a
part of maturization or maturity [inaudible] in Greece.
But can we view it in more specifics. What are the benefits for
Greece, according to you of course, through that or from that strategic
alliance on defense and other areas? I mean it’s one thing to say, I
remember in 2005 Condi Rice first mentioned strategic relationship with
Petros Molyviatis, then Foreign Minister. And we were all happy in a
way, but then tried to analyze it and we didn’t know in specific,
tangible terms what it means. What does it mean, strategic initiative?
Ambassador Pyatt: Tom, I think first and foremost
that’s a question
you have to put to the Greek government. What I will say is the
following. First of all, every American who comes to Greece appreciates
the complicated strategic geography of its neighborhood, and
if there’s
one thing that I’ve learned through 30 years as an American diplomat,
it’s that geography trumps philosophy. Geography matters.
Greece lives in a complicated neighborhood vis-à-vis your large
neighbor to the east; but also a complicated neighborhood vis-à-vis
North Africa and the Magreb, the refugee problem; vis-à-vis the Eastern
Med, which as I said— I’m always struck when Admiral Foggo talks about
this, about how when he was a young naval officer cruising around the
Mediterranean, it was basically a lake cruise for the US Navy.
Now
you have an aggressive Russian naval presence in the Eastern
Mediterranean, a Russian base at Tartous, the expansion of the Russian
footprint in Crimea, in occupied Crimea, and leveraging that to project
power and influence into the wider neighborhood. But Russia is not the
only part of the story.
So
in this complicated region we, the United States, view Greece as a
pillar of stability. That was the phrase that Secretary Pompeo used
when he was with Minister Katrougalos. I think, and here again I don’t
want to speak for the Greek government, but I think Greek people that I
engage with see the United States presence as reassuring. That’s why
when I was in Alexandroupolis a few months ago talking to the Mayor, he
was extremely enthusiastic about the fact that we were rotating American
helicopter forces through Alexandroupolis. Not because he was a big
fan of NATO but because he saw the
American presence as reassuring.
Sending a confidence-building message to investors, to the international
community, at a moment in time when there are other reasons which
encourage anxiety.
Tom Ellis: Speaking of anxiety in other regions, how do you assess
Turkish policy these days towards Greece? And also the development we
have here in our domestic politics with the new Defense Minister. A lot
of key people think that Mr. Apostolakis is somebody who can work
better with the Turks, but I’m just wondering what your assessment is
and for the CBMs that they seem to be working on. You mentioned your
previous presence here. Three years, was it, or two years? You
mentioned your anxiety about hostility of how should I call it, hot
incident in the Aegean or an accident? Are we in a better place in
this?
Ambassador Pyatt: I think we are. Let me start with Minister
Apostolakis, who I would emphasize has the highest respect from his
counterparts in the Pentagon. There was a very good letter that was
just sent from Acting Secretary of Defense Shanahan just the other day
following up their conversations at the last NATO Defense Ministerial.
He’s also highly regarded as a soldier by his counterparts, General
Scaparotti, General Dunford, Admiral Foggo. That counts for a lot. But
there’s also tremendous appreciation in Washington for the efforts that
Minister Apostolakis has made to open a clear channel of communications
with Minister Akar. And at the end of the day, these are two NATO
allies and
for the United States, a paramount objective is to ensure
that Greece and Turkey are NATO allies in fact and are able to behave as
such.
You talked about two years ago. What I remember was one year ago,
and this morning, this very morning [a year ago] about 2:00 o’clock on
the Friday morning of the Delphi Forum, I got a knock on my door and it
was my guys informing me that two Greek soldiers had been taken on the
Turkish border — so a reminder that it wasn’t that long ago when there
were a lot of points of irritation. You have the collisions of vessels,
the activities of the Turkish Coast Guard vessel. It’s a very positive
development that Minister Apostolakis is so strongly focused on this. I
also appreciate the fact that the Foreign Ministers and Secretary
General Paraskevopoulos are working on the CBMs agenda, again.
I remember when I was getting ready for this job I had lunch with
Ambassador Ries, and Charlie gave me a
RAND paper on Aegean CBMs and
said why don’t you take this and keep it on your shelf. There may be an
opportunity to work on it at some point. I’ve still got it on the
shelf, Charlie. But we are hopeful that the process that the Prime
Minister and President Erdogan agreed to last month in Ankara will make
it possible to revive some of those conversations as well.
Then I think also extremely, extremely important, both the imagery
but also the practical impact of the Prime Minister’s trip to Istanbul,
his visit to the Halki Seminary. The United States, American policy has
been very clear on our support for the Ecumenical Patriarch,
the
important role that the church plays and that the Patriarch plays as
part of the West. Reopening Halki is part of strengthening the
Ecumenical Patriarch’s hand in the existential battle that is now
underway between the Church of Constantinople and the Moscow church, and
Patriarch Kirill. So very, very important as well.
Tom Ellis: This is about Greece and US, but just the Greek
analysis of your assessment on the President of Turkey. It’s a big
issue for the world, not only Greece. The European Union, the US,
should we trust Mr. Erdogan in that [inaudible] all the other things you
mentioned, from Cyprus to the Balkans to he seems to be building a lot
of mosques in the area we’re told to respect Islam. He is doing it. So
there might be some other ideology behind it. So how are you assessing
—
Ambassador Pyatt: Let me just say two things. In the context of
American strategy in Southeastern Europe, Greece and the United States
see eye to eye. In fact we probably see closer eye to eye than we, the
United States, do with almost any other NATO partner in terms of our
shared interest in seeing that Turkey remains anchored in the West, in
working through the difficult issues that both of our governments have.
We are in a difficult moment still in the U.S.-Turkish relationship.
I would also note that I am very pleased that David Satterfield, one
of our most senior and most respected ambassadors, has been nominated to
serve in Ankara. He has a more difficult job than I do, just like John
Bass had a more difficult job than I did, and it’s been a long time
without an American Ambassador there.
Tom Ellis: And a last point on Turkey, [inaudible]. Are you worried
about things developing to the [inaudible]. Because last time you
talked about the Aegean, about the islands, [inaudible], which is real,
but it’s also theoretical. In the case of Cyprus we, it seems and hope,
we’re talking about a lot of money if there’s gas, and the more there
is the more money there is. And Turkey is a big country with energy
needs. And actually I was recently with a Turkish diplomat talking
about it and he said openly that they’re not going to let this thing go
away because there’s a lot of gas it seems. He didn’t specify what he
will do or what his country will do.
So are you worried about, you have Exxon-Mobil there which is an American company. How are you dealing with —
Ambassador Pyatt: I think we have time. It’s going to be a long
process for Exxon-Mobil now to follow up its preliminary findings to
determine the full scope of the resources that are available, and then
to decide — and they have yet to decide whether to invest the billions
of dollars that will be required to both extract the gas and then bring
it to market.
They have to decide is there enough gas to justify an LNG
facility in Cyprus? Do they take it to Egypt? Do they plug it into
the East Med? And that in turn is affected by global market trends.
So this is an issue that’s going to unfold over a matter of years and
decades, not weeks. In the meantime we welcome the fact that President
Anastasiades has endorsed the concept of an escrow fund or a sovereign
fund that would ensure that the revenues, if they ever come, from any
off-shore exploration, will be equitably shared with the communities.
I come back to my point about Greek-Turkey relations, our support for
the dialogue that’s underway, and our interest in seeing that all of
these matters are managed professionally and in a way that reinforces
regional stability.
Tom Ellis: Moving away from Turkey, the Balkans. You mentioned the
Prespes Agreement. Can you assess the situation in the Balkans? The
role of Greece, given what has happened with the agreement.
Ambassador Pyatt: I think the two things that are most impressive to
me, one is —and I had the opportunity to spend some time with Foreign
Minister Dimitrov earlier this morning — one thing that’s
impressive to
me is the appetite among the countries of the Western Balkans for
Greece’s engagement. Again, Greece is back, and for understandable
reasons, through the better part of a decade Greece was preoccupied with
its internal financial and economic situation, and didn’t have the
bandwidth for an actively engaged foreign policy in the Western
Balkans. Moving forward, the United States and Greece have exactly
congruent interests. We wish to see all of the countries of the Western
Balkans continue on the path towards the Euro-Atlantic community,
continue to move towards European standards of reform. It’s a long and
difficult process.
I’m highly confident that somebody from Athens or
Thessaloniki is better positioned to help with that process than a
bureaucrat sitting in Brussels. So I think we, the United States, see
Greece as a preferred partner for the US in working with Europe and
working with European institutions on all of this.
I also think, and I probably spent — Charlie will correct me if I’m
misstating —I think I’ve spent more time in Thessaloniki and Northern
Greece than any American Ambassador in several generations. And a lot
of that time has been spent with Greek companies. A lot of my energy
has been spent pushing back on the malign influence of Russia and the
negative effect that Russia has had on issues like the church, on
transparency. But I am also struck among my friends in the business
community, I spoke to Thanasis earlier this morning and he’ll be
speaking later in the conference. I think everybody in Thessaloniki in
the business community recognizes that it has been too long that there’s
been an artificial barrier between Greece and its northern neighbors.
And the Prespes Agreement is what demolished that artificial barrier and
creates the opportunity for Greek businesses to begin thinking
regionally.
And I come back to TIF. Again, the reason that Simos and I were
successful in marketing the Thessaloniki International Fair is precisely
because we were able to present it as an opportunity not just to
address the market in Thessaloniki or the market in Greece, but in the
wider region. And I think especially for Thessaloniki, that’s key to
future prosperity.
Tom Ellis: Thank you. Now that you mention Prespes, the Prespes guy from our side seems to be here.
Ambassador Pyatt: Dimitrov and Kotzias. I think they can both speak
better than I can to the economic benefits of their agreement.
Tom Ellis: Thank you very much. I have to be honest, I was worried a
little bit when you mentioned that someone came and knocked at your
hotel door at 2:00 o’clock in the morning, you know, [inaudible] really
worried. But it was the Turkish army, the soldiers.
Thank you very much, I appreciate it. And I apologize to the organizers. I’m told we went a few minutes overtime.
Ambassador Pyatt: Thanks, Tom. I look forward to doing it again.
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